Part Two

Though conspicuously absent from the stage, he is not short on commentary, and in the following interview, the second of five parts, he tells all about his bodybuilding career, bodybuilding drugs, judging, the future of the sport and much more.

---

An Interview With Nasser El Sonbaty

By: David Robson

Despite images perpetuated in the media of the idyllic existence professional bodybuilding provides those fortunate enough to make it to the very top, many top-level competitors struggle to maintain their status among the best of the best. Bodybuilding, both the journey to the top and the process of maintaining a certain lifestyle, can be fraught with difficulty.

In the increasingly competitive world of men’s professional bodybuilding, few live the kind of lifestyle befitting a world-class athlete.

While pro basketball and football players commonly enjoy million dollar contracts, only a handful of bodybuilders make this kind of money, and to do so they must seek lucrative endorsement deals as competition prize money is comparatively minimal, contracts based on affiliation to a particular federation non-existent.

But this is the reality and nature of professional bodybuilding, a sport that does not have the same kind of mainstream acceptance, and therefore does not attract financial backing, comparable to more popular, mainstream pursuits.

As well as fewer financial opportunities, pro bodybuilding is a demanding sport that, in various ways, takes its toll on relationships and, in some cases, the health of the athlete. One man, who has seen, and experienced professional bodybuilding’s best and worst aspects, is long-time competitor Nasser El Sonbaty.

As a devoted bodybuilder, Nasser has lived through medical conditions related to his many years of intense training and dieting and experienced the often cutthroat and ruthless nature of bodybuilding bureaucracy. As a competitor he has also experienced great success and at one time was officially judged the second-best bodybuilder in the world.

As an astute bodybuilding observer Nasser is the thinking man’s bodybuilder, but he is also strongly opinionated, and honest, and thus will comment on many issues other professionals will not touch. Being an insider with an open mind has given Nasser an ability to cut through political correctness to discuss the issues fans are not often privy to.

In the following interview, Nasser continues where he left off in part one to provide insight into the often dark, but curiously alluring world of the professional bodybuilder.

[ Q ] There has been talk of athletes not receiving a fair deal, as you yourself alluded to in part one of our interview. Lee Priest has also been quite vocal on this subject over recent years. Are athlete’s treated fairly in your view?

I don’t think people like Lee Priest exaggerate, I just think they are saying what a lot of people want to say but are afraid to say. I don’t see any positive changes for the athletes and I don’t see any improvements.

By taking him back they are taking the biggest asset away from the other federation. So when Lee is gone his name is gone. So they can kill two birds with one stone: damage the other federation by taking their biggest asset and getting a great athlete back in their ranks and making, in the end, another guy shut up.

I definitely don’t think they will make it too difficult for him to come back. And the other federation doesn’t offer too much money and publicity so at the end he is going where the money is talking.

[ Q ] So do you think an athlete’s choice to compete in a particular federation is largely money driven?

Yes, so as long as you have the majority of the best athletes and stage contests on a regular basis and you have the magazines behind them you can still screw up often but still be the best choice of all of the choices.

[ Q ] Is the Pro Division Incorporated a viable option for professional bodybuilders in your view?

No, because if you win the overall at the USA for example and you turn pro, what is the next step? You join with all the other pros who are already there; there is no real alternative. The NPC are guiding people. And most bodybuilding athletes in the world are competing in the NPC.
I don’t see any federation in the world with as many competitors as the NPC. They have a few pro qualifiers, which are the USA and the Nationals two weeks after the Olympia and there is the North American Championships and the Canadian champs. Then there are the Amateur World Championships and if your win these you can be part of it as well. Most amateur athletes are part of the NPC.

Also, Wayne DeMilia’s Federation, Pro Division Incorporated, has nothing to offer compared to the longer established. Wayne does not have the top 15 competitors in his federation, does not have any known magazines or sites behind him and does not have any special financial rewards.

Personally, though, I like him (Wayne Demilia). And I think that they lost in him one of the most talented and efficient working figures in bodybuilding ever. But, again, he was wrongly judging the chess figures on the board. He did not realize certain balances of power within the hierarchy.

[ Q ] Do you think that another bodybuilding federation could rival the it sometime in the near future?

Politically it is always possible if you have a chance and the money. If the other federation has enough money to stage an alternative championship then definitely yes, just so long as the other federation can prove that it is capable of promoting and staging shows not only in the U.S. but also in Europe. It’s all about money. Where the money is, the bodybuilders are going.

If you are looking for a job, you get two offers and one offers you more money you will most likely go there. Why should you stay with a federation that does not offer you enough benefits?

Ninety-five percent of all bodybuilders are living a minimal existence on the poverty line, so bodybuilding people don’t even think of the general audience; you either have money or you don’t have money at all.

[ Q ] It strikes me as strange that you have guys who will probably never make it to the very top of the bodybuilding world to make a significant income, yet will spend thousands to get there, sometimes ruining their health in the process. What is the motivation for these guys?

I think one of the reasons, from a non- American’s perspective is that everybody in the U.S. thinks they can become anything. They say here on TV that if you want it badly enough you can just do it.
The media is talking in your head and whispering in your ear that you can be a pro athlete, a movie star, a singer, anything you want. But that is just not what the reality is. So everybody thinks that if they want it badly enough and just put enough work into it that it will happen.
Nasser.
So a lot of these people are dreamers and will do it for five, ten, fifteen years. They will move to Venice, California and live in little trailer parks and eat tuna all day and go to Gold’s Gym, Venice, and think that one day they will make it and somebody will discover them. They will become a movie star or an extra or whatever. And they think they can do it so much even if they lack the genetics or any kind of other capabilities.

As people know, America is known to be the land of possibilities, of borderless possibilities. And those people think if Arnold can come from Austria and make it, if Nasser can make it, if this guy comes from France or from England. And they think since they are already in America they should be able to make it. And this is the American dream, which can definitely become the American nightmare.

[ Q ] These people are willing to put themselves through so much to reach their bodybuilding goals.

I completely agree. I have never seen this anywhere else in the world except for here (in America). It is just an American disease I would call it. For some people it works, but for other people it does not and those people feel they can make it because they want it even more than the other person.

[ Q ] What are some examples of people pushing themselves to the extreme to make it in bodybuilding, but not getting there despite their efforts?

There are so many competing in the amateur ranks. There are the nameless, countless examples that have tried it but don’t really consider what is happening because they have been there so many years, but it never happened for them.
As an example Dave Palumbo: he tried so many times to turn pro. He went from show to show and now he has all the knowledge to help others. But it can be either he was missing the body or they didn’t want him to turn pro. He is one of hundreds that didn’t make it. In a lot of cases, turning pro can bring a successful career but it can also mean that you have reached the end of the road.

Dave Palumbo.
For example, the most successful amateur bodybuilding team in the world is Egypt. They don’t have too many big guys, mostly bantamweight through to light heavyweight. Every year you have one, two, three, four guys from Egypt who win the world championships, but they realize that if they turn pro they don’t have a chance.

“Turning Pro Can Bring A Successful Career But It Can Also Mean That You Have Reached The End Of The Road.”
At least they are realistic. But other people here, they win the bantamweight and then they go into the pro shows and they think they can add ten or twenty pounds and be like Dexter Jackson. But how many Dexter Jackson’s and how many Mohammad Benaziza’s do you have from all these bantam and featherweight USA National’s winners?

Only a couple out of over a hundred competitors, that’s how many. But again, someone tells them they can make it and they think they can make it.

I get all kinds of e-mails from countries all over the world. Recently a guy from Brazil was sending me e-mails and he said he would like to turn pro and he has enough money because his parents are rich. He said, “Tell me what kinds of drugs I will have to take so I can turn pro too.”

They think just because they have money they are just missing the drug knowledge that has stopped them from turning pro. That’s what they think – very simple-minded people. But being a top bodybuilding pro and making a living is one of the most difficult things on the planet. You are more likely to become a U.S. senator, a congressman, than to become a top six, or top ten guy on a regular basis at the Olympia.

[ Q ] You competed for a long time and clearly had the genetics and work ethic to make it to the top. How did you manage to take drugs for so many years, yet stay relatively healthy?

It is not only what your genetics are like if your aim is to turn pro or how hard you train or your consistency, it is also very important how your body reacts to all the different kinds of drugs you are ingesting for years and years. Not only the positive, anabolic effects but also the negative effects, the side effects.
You need to have a constitution like a horse. For example if Ronnie Coleman and now Jay Cutler didn’t have constitutions of a horse they would have been sick a long time ago and wouldn’t be able to actually continue competing like they are competing.

You Need To Have A Constitution Like A Horse.
Then we have the bodybuilding victims: Flex Wheeler, Don Long, Tom Prince and Mike Morris and many more like them, and so many more nameless ones. They are all victims of whatever they have been doing over these years and not everybody has a perfect health situation.

It is also how the side effects have an impact on you. You can also be or become a psychological mental victim when it comes to health success and achievements.

[ Q ] Bodybuilding great Milos Sarcev said something interesting on the Pro Bodybuilding Weekly radio show, to the effect that anabolic steroids are constructive, not destructive. What are your thoughts on this statement?

I think in general you can say that everything that congeals up to a certain level is quite healthy. Let’s say you take vitamin-C. After a certain amount you might say it is healthy. Same thing applies to other so-called vitamin supplements.
You can compare this to anabolic steroids because these are produced for people who are burn victims or car accident victims, or are given to people who don’t recover fast enough or good enough after surgery, so they can be very beneficial. But on the other side, you can abuse your body over years and years with anabolic steroids, and you get many people who do this and never even do it under the supervision of a doctor.

They just buy it on the black market and use it and the bad effects might come out. They have heard that you can get big, and this guy got big, and so they just continue applying it to themselves. From a certain point on I think anabolic steroids are certainly not healthy and can be counterproductive.

You mentioned Milos Sarcev. Here is a point I would like to make in this interview. Milos still owes me money: 2550 dollars. I loaned him money to buy anabolic steroids because at the time, in 1995, he was getting divorced from one of his numerous wives and he was out of money. So I loaned him the money so he could buy his drugs so he could compete. But he never gave me the money back (laughs).

Later he was telling people that he paid me back by providing me with steroid knowledge. First of all this is wrong: he never gave me any knowledge because he would get all his knowledge from me. He likes to be one of these guys who are always the center of attention.

He is one of the most vain bodybuilders. And he has silicone implants in his calves. And he likes to have the reputation as being the trainer of champions and everybody who he is training he is providing with drugs and then he gets a little success with his clients, before moving onto the next one.

Again he is very attention hungry and likes to promote himself and this is why he likes to give out the steroids. Because people wouldn’t actually go to him to be trained if they did not get the steroid program they were promised.

[ Q ] You have been very critical about pro bodybuilding. Now tell me, what do you like most about pro bodybuilding?

What do I like about bodybuilding the most? I really do not know. I think I am used to it in a certain way and I do feel psychologically better if I have a blood flow during and after working out. Yes, I would rather be muscular than fat or skinny.
But what I really do like the most? I like the fact that definitely you can’t buy it. Otherwise everyone would buy 30 pounds of back and shoulders, 15 pounds of muscles for this and that body part. If you buy a car you must park it in front of the house or building. You can only take the key with you. But a built body can be taken anywhere.

And as a bodybuilder you definitely like to look different compared to others. And piercing’s, tattoos, changing hairstyles and hair colours are not my way to express myself or, again, to look different. We are living in a free world and everyone should handle it their way as long he or she is not endangering the next person with his or her expression of their different kind of bodywork.

[ Q ] How important is mental attitude when preparing for a show and achieving bodybuilding training objectives?

Now I can say that you have to be mentally tough to put it together and pull it through… blah, blah. But this is only one aspect of it, bodybuilding and its success, which is to me having the finished product, which for the body consists of so many other factors. You need discipline and endurance.
You have to be consistent in your workouts and intense over years and years. It is not just enough to train for a couple of months until summer so you will then look good at the beach, pool or club. It takes way more time than that.

99.9 percent of all people who go to the gym do not compete, do not have it and will never compete regardless of what the real and fake reasons are. And if you think you have it, you still need patience.

A great body is not built overnight. It takes many, many years of sacrifice outside of the gym and self-torture in the gym, and also when it comes to eating healthy (not just junk) and controlling your appetite in the pre contest phase when you are getting ready for a show; you are then eating for shape and not for satisfying your appetite.

I have heard BS like, “Nasser, I could look like you but I like to eat.” Or: “My brother is also a bodybuilder.” “Yes, lady but on what kind of level?” It is like I am telling Pete Sampras or Agassi or Federer, “My brother also plays Tennis.”

Or just another example out of the blue: “I would not like to look like you.” It is like going up to someone who is driving a Ferrari Testosterosa and telling him that you “do not like to drive such a car.” So what, who cares what you like or don’t, nobody was asking you!

So again you definitely need mental strength and determination, especially when you are doing this seriously over years and years and are, on top of that, competing as an amateur or pro. And as a pro it is one of the most difficult and demanding professions on planet earth to make a living at.

To make a living from it you have to be in the top 10 in the world on a regular basis. It is like you are a dentist, for example. But being only able to make a living as a dentist by being not only top 10 in the city, the county, the state, the country or the continent but by being top 10 on the planet and this on a regular basis. And you have to prove it every six to 12 months.

You have to have the ultimate genetics for all the different body parts. Your waist can’t be too thick and you can’t have a tremendous upper body but at the same time a waist like a camel and maybe chicken legs.

All the body parts should and have to be evenly developed. It is not enough to have great quads but missing hams. Or having a good back but lacking arms. Or having a great triceps but underdeveloped biceps. But you will find out by competing, going from show to show and you’ll see how big your genetic reservoir is.

You have to have symmetry, proportion and balance. And you really can’t train for ultimate symmetry. Have the look of your abs changed? You can make them hard and develop them, but their shape won’t change regardless how long you train and how many drugs you think you have to use to change them.

Also people do have different body types. And some just have a much better look from the beginning and some will always have a higher body fat level because it is in their genes. And some should play basketball before they start to try to fill their long limbs out with muscles, which are impossible for them to get.

You should feed yourself on a regular basis with good and fresh quality food. And this costs money, lots of money. But money is definitely no guarantee either of making it otherwise every millionaire or son or daughter of a millionaire would be a bodybuilding champion.

You should and must have good health, like in any other sport, from the beginning. You should be ambitious but not reckless in the demands on yourself and others.

You should surround yourself with neutral people to the sport or, even better, with people who do not like to hold you up from your physical development like the fake jealous friends, the girlfriend who always feels neglected or a girlfriend who is more into drinking, drugging, club hopping and partying before she is even able to prepare you a healthy meal.

A lot of females want to have the bodybuilder as a finished product and like to be seen with him. But they do not want to help to create the product. It is like you want to have kids but not necessarily the work that it is combined with it. Also the partner can get jealous over the time you are spending in the gym and of your preparation for a show.

It can also take a huge toll on your closer and wider family circle. And some people can get so obsessed with it that bodybuilding is consuming their whole entire life so that they basically do not do anything but follow a strict bodybuilding regime, do not get education or have any other healthy social activities. And they think the world owes them something for their greatness. But this is the other extreme spectrum of this possible scenario.

And a lot of very ambitious bodybuilders become so-called bodybuilding fatalities when they realize that they did not make it to the top of the amateur or pro ranks, or if they become physically or/and psychologically unhealthy.

The bodybuilding cake consists of a lot of factors, which you really can’t totally plan out beforehand. It is also important to be a stable person from the beginning on, despite based on what I have witnessed and seen with so many people coming from the drug and alcohol field going into the bodybuilding, fitness and the figure world. Some become healthier and some become way more buried into drugs.

[ Q ] You say it is important to have someone supportive to your goals assisting you. Are you or were you married and if so, is or was your wife supportive?

I divorced at the beginning of 2003. It was a financially costly divorce for me. My former wife definitely got compensated for whatever she did for me. As I mentioned before, it is difficult to live with a competitive bodybuilder, especially a top pro who has to put all their time and energy into the sport.
What is also very difficult for the female in such a relationship is that all the attention is on the guy and, not like in most “normal” relationships where it is on the female. Pro bodybuilders are basically male beauty queens who require more work than the average guy.

Often the wives of these guys have a shadow existence. They do benefit from the success (lifestyle, money, prestige) of their partners but they do still feel neglected. I definitely had a very helpful and supportive wife, luckily not one of those who had a drug problem or an alcohol problem or/and a family problem like most females do. A bodybuilder should have either a very supportive partner or no partner at all.

My former wife wrote down and counted my daily calories of all my countless diets for over ten years – and I was eating a meal almost every 2.5 – 3.0 hours. I do not know anybody else who will do that or would be doing that.

For my career I had the best possible understanding, support and help. No doubt. So in the end I did not mind giving her $70 000.00 U.S. dollars for getting my Akita (Sato) dog back from her. Originally I told her attorney that she had kidnapped Sato but her attorney told me that an animal was an asset and could not be seen as kidnapped.

Nasser’s 70,000 Dollar Dog, Sato, A Female Akita.

[ Q ] I understand you also suffered a setback of a physical kind in late 2006, early 2007, when you went back to Germany to have extensive surgery done.

Yes, I decided to go to Germany for my surgeries. I had a couple of birth marks removed from my back and in another long surgery I had my belly button (hernia) fixed, scar tissue removed from my left lat, and had lipomas (fat deposits) taken out from under my arm pits.

This all begun in December of 2006. The lipomas, I was told, were the result of dieting for so many years. The body just wanted to hold onto body fat and stored it under and inside the armpits. It felt like I had bars of soap implanted under my armpits.

During Surgery.
The removal of the lipomas created blood filled holes which developed to blood filled “balloons”, so I had to undergo two more surgeries to stop the bleeding and to reduce the blood filled balloons. It was very agonizing.

During Lipoma Surgery.
I spent almost two months just lying in bed to recuperate from that. The belly button surgery was nothing compared to the lipomas. At that time my parents took good care of me, as they both live in Germany.

Three Weeks After His Lipoma Surgery, Nasser Is Back In Hospital To Have Tissue, Water And Blood Removed From The Original Lipoma Sites.

Next Page