Nasser El Sonbaty

Part One-II

[ Q ] You are known for being one of the largest professional bodybuilders of all time and one of the few guys who can guest pose at over 300 pounds with abs. Were you always a larger bodybuilder or did it take a lot of time and effort for you work your way up to your present size?

I started lifting weights when I was 17 years old. My weight was then 85 kilos (187 pounds) and my highest off-season weight has been up to around 330 pounds so I gained some weight, obviously. At the beginning my lower body was better developed than my upper body. I always had calves, quads and hams. They have just been genetically there.

Nasser El Sonbaty

And when it comes to upper body development – I had shoulders and chest already relatively well developed, just naturally without even working out.

The first time in the “gym” I bench pressed 70 kilos (154 pounds) – it was shaky but I still accomplished it. And to date I still have the most symmetrical abs in the history of bodybuilding. And for a six-foot tall guy, my overall symmetry is very good.

The funny thing is, the smaller and shorter the guys are the more they have the tendency to claim that they are symmetrical. And the bigger you are, the less symmetry they like to attribute to you. I guess it has to do with a kind of compensation behavior short guys have, because most of them just do not have the size. For sure there are exceptions. Still, their genetics are just not good enough (for them) to be a top pro bodybuilder.

I am definitely blessed to have had certain body parts right from the beginning, but it does not mean that I did not have to train hard and harder over the years to get to where I finally fully developed my potential. And another funny thing is that nobody and I mean nobody saw my potential.

I did not have a contract either until I came in 6th place at my first Olympia in 1994. I skipped the Olympia in 1993 in order to look better in this show in ‘ 94. And I did not have a spokesperson like Ed Connors from Gold’s Gym who promoted many guys even if they just did not have it.

Also, for example, Peter McGough, Editor-in-chief of Flex magazine paved the propaganda way for his countryman, Dorian Yates, here in the U.S. when Yates started to emerge from the amateur ranks in the U.K. McGough is, though, besides the Weiders, one of the greatest advocates of the sport of bodybuilding. A lot of guys in the sport including myself owe McGough more then just a “thank you”.

[ Q ] In the mid ’90s you, almost overnight so to speak, became one of bodybuilding’s most promising champions and a legitimate contender for the Mr. Olympia title. How did you make such tremendous progress to go from an unknown in 1990 to one of the main challengers to Dorian Yates’s title in 1997?

First of all I went to a German University between May of 1985 and November of 1992 (seven and a half years at the University of Augsburg). So while I attended University I had to, at the same time, work in the semester holidays and also during the week to support myself. Also I was competing already at the pro level. I turned pro in 1990 and my first pro show was the Finish Grand Prix in Helsinki, where I finished in 8th place.

Nasser With His Mother In Stuttgart Germany, 2007

So studying, working out, working, competing, and dieting at the same time required lots of will power, energy and persistence and was definitely not easy.

My dad, who is an engineer and worked for Mercedes Benz for decades, always taught me since I was a child that I had to complete higher schooling in order to have a higher school finish/degree first and foremost for the sake of being adequately educated and secondly in order not to be or at least to be less bossed around later in life. And he said the lower my academic qualifications or results are, the more likely it will be that other people will boss me around. Later I came to understand the real importance of education.

So education was for me always way more important than physical performance or a muscular look. And today I am very grateful to my dad that he basically indoctrinated into me the necessity for education.

My physical improvements did not come overnight and it still took time even if it looks fast to some people. With the years you learn to be more intense and consistent in the gym. And you learn how to get in shape by experimenting with diets.

I did not have anyone in Germany to teach me how to work out, how to diet efficiently without sacrificing less muscle than necessary. And at that time you did not have personal trainers, nutrition gurus and so on around. Also I would not have had the money to afford anything like that either. And as we all do know, most bodybuilders, if they know something, do not want to share the knowledge or “secret” with you. But at the same time, they always want to know what you are doing.

And until today I do have people coming up to me – as soon as they see that I am friendly and nice – who want to extract knowledge and energy out of me. And I did not have, for example, a sponsor at that time like Mike Francois had one before he even turned pro or Jay Cutler who had a Weider contract for two years before he ever entered a pro show.

It is definitively much more difficult to be a non-U.S. bodybuilder and to establish yourself here in the land of bodybuilding. Flights to here, hotels having to be paid for there, the lack of information and the lack of publicity if you are not originally English speaking and not living here: it is like you are coming from outer space. And after I came in 6th place at the Olympia in 1994, I got a contract from Joe a Weider, which allowed me to put even more time and energy into developing my body.

By the way, Joe was the only one who ever offered me a bodybuilding contract. Without him I would have never come as far as I did. He created a bodybuilding superstar hero out of me. He made me known around the whole world by paying the greatest photographers like Chris Lund to take pictures of me. And so, partly because of this, I have lived in Southern California since 1994.

[ Q ] Having controversially lost the 1997 Mr. Olympia title, when many people thought you should have won, how did you take this result and why do you think the judges placed you second?

Yes definitely. That is a fact (I should have won the 1997 Mr. Olympia). When I did not receive the Sandow in 1997 I realized that there is no fair competition (in pro bodybuilding). I realized it earlier but, again, in 1997 it was more obvious than ever before.

Nasser El Sonbaty

In 1994 I came in second at the Night of Champions in New York City. I think that I should have won that specific show, but they let Mike Francois, as the reigning USA champion, take the title.

I was just the unknown, or better, the “unimportant” guy from Europe. The title stayed in the U.S. and Nasser went back to Europe. Besides, another European called Dorian Yates was already holding the Mr. Olympia title.

And to come back to 1997 (Mr. Olympia), Flex Wheeler came to me after the prejudging (which was on a Friday, so that they had the finals on Saturday – in order for them to generate more entrance ticket money in Long Beach, California) and told me backstage if I knew that they would not give me my very deserved title. I did not say too much because I hoped that he was wrong. But as we all know, Dorian Yates won the Olympia again, the very next day.

He won despite a huge belly (looking like he was pregnant in the sixth month), a waist like a drum, a torn up left biceps, a freshly torn left triceps, a quad tear left, a quad tear right, a torn right hip. He won it with a perfect score, which was just unbelievable. This was a completely staged outcome and the biggest bodybuilding robbery of the 20th century by the clique of judges who “judged”.

I also have to say that some judges had Dorian Yates even in third and fourth place, because about 13 judges judged officially. I think you just use seven of the score sheets. But these judges’ (who scored Dorian lower) score sheets had not been used and some of the judges’ had then been removed from the judging panel because they did not produce what was expected of them to produce.

There are multiple reasons why I did not win. Some judges did not want to upset their friend Dorian and they did not want him to go out of bodybuilding with a defeat after all his injuries and tears. They did not want to give another non-U.S. guy the most prestigious title in bodybuilding because it would underline the U.S. inferiority in bodybuilding compared to non-U.S. athletes.

Then definitely another reason is that I am so outspoken and not just an order follower. That I say how it is, and do not brown nose and make phone calls in order to “secure” a placement like so may others who play the official tough guy.

I have no problem calling people up, but not for the sole purpose of placing here and there in a certain spot. And I am, for too many people, far too educated and too intelligent. And they realized I could be a danger to them if I was the new titleholder.

And last but not least, when people saw my body they figured they couldn’t achieve that. Before doing this they would rather be dead. So I was also physically too freaky and too big, even for pro bodybuilding. And I was also critical about judges and co-competitors and did not deny it when I was questioned about that.

[ Q ] You say your physique was too freaky and too massive; sounds like you were ahead of your time. How would you personally describe your physique and just what made you the best bodybuilder onstage at the 1997 Mr. Olympia?

The best proof of my superior physique over everyone else’s physique can be seen on the 1997 Olympia tape. This says it all. But I would still like to make some statements.

Nasser El Sonbaty

I had, compared to 1997 Mr. Olympia title winner, Dorian Yates, the better built and the better, god given genetic structure with even nicer looking veins. I did not have one torn muscle like he had so many, many torn muscles. My body is more proportioned and more, way more symmetrical.

I had the better waist (also the best V-taper, shoulders/waistline), better and tighter abs, paper thin skin, better triceps, better biceps, better shoulders, better chest, better hams, and better quads. I was tighter, harder and fresher in appearance (because I did not have a couple of week-old triceps tears which had not even been attempted to have been fixed surgically, otherwise Yates wouldn’t have been able to step on stage).

Then I heard the big BS – “… but Dorian had him (Nasser) from the back.” The only body part I give Yates when he supposedly had me was his tremendous lower back development but not his thickness or back width.

The Olympia is not a lower back contest. An Olympia title is not to be given out to the best lower back – otherwise why do all of us still train all of the other body parts?

My general opinion of that show, the 1997 two-day Olympia, is that I got robbed live in front of thousands of people but with no consequences for anyone but me and a few judges who did not judge according to that which was expected of them, that what was suggested to them.

If I would have won the Olympia back then, I would have won it for a couple more years straight with the body, dedication, drive, willpower and desire I had at that time. I got robbed for at least five million U.S. dollars – to give a low number estimate when I am counting all the missed endorsements and opportunities connected to the Olympia title. I got so badly cheated. My trust will never ever be the same. The lost trust is beyond possible repair.

From the six Mr. Olympia titles Yates got, I do believe that he just deserved to win half of them. An Anglo-Saxon name and a Peter McGough in the Weider office in Woodland Hills, California was definitely a good investment from Yates’s side regarding his titles and his aspirations. And if Yates didn’t have so much pressure on him after the ‘97 Olympia, Yates would have tried to compete again at the 1998 Olympia in New York City. For sure Yates would have expected another Olympia title with possibly an even more fixed up and deteriorated physique.

Also regarding judging: I do completely understand that people like Vince Taylor, Shawn Ray and also Kevin Levrone, Chris Cormier, Lee Priest, Dave Palumbo, Matt Mendenhall also got very fed up regarding the cheating, political manipulations and the games we, as bodybuilders, have been part of.

Being robbed – so obviously – and eating and taking sh!t for so many years is also very hard. It takes almost the skin of a machine to digest all these more than controversial decisions to take, to regroup, to focus again and continue fighting – and sometimes fighting against a wall.

Up to a certain point you can’t just train even harder when the decision is already made beforehand. And I have been bodybuilding for 26 years, and competing for 22 years in a row. I am not just misguided or paranoid. I am pretty logical and observant. And it does not take too much intelligence to realize that sometimes things are not as they should be.

By the way: in the 1997 Olympia, three results in the top six got changed. They said that a mistake was made. So they said at the ‘97 Mr. Olympia banquet that three guys got the information that their results changed for the worse. So even later, the original official 1997 Mr. Olympia tape (with the top six onstage) had to be re-arranged within the new placements.

With His Sister Gigi & A Friend

I was the Arnold Classic runner up in 1997 and 1998. I won it in 1999 – finally. Levrone had his posing trunks on back to front – which I guess can happen but he received the most muscular trophy notwithstanding the fact that I was 287 pounds onstage and he was approximately 50 pounds lighter than me. Then Levrone thought that he won the show as well – but I did.

[ Q ] With a competition record of 13 amateur and 66 pro show appearances and six pro wins, statistically you are one of professional bodybuilding’s best competitors. What has been your greatest moment as a professional bodybuilder to date and why?

My first three pro shows were the Helsinki Pro, the French Pro, and the Dutch Pro – all in 1990. So, I have competed in 66 shows in total. And I finished in the top three in 32 or 33 pro shows! And as you stated correctly I won six pro shows, three in Europe and three on U.S. soil.

Nasser El Sonbaty

I would like to mention here that I was officially disqualified in 1996 after my third place finish at the Olympia where I got a standing ovation, by the way. The disqualification was because of the use of diuretics. I lost my official third placement and had to return my approximately 35,000.00 U.S dollar prize money.

I am still angry at the inconsistency of judging from the top of the NPC and the U.S. because my well-deserved prize money was taken away from me, my third place not accepted (and I should have been either first or second). And I tell you why: in 2001 Jay Cutler came in second place at the Olympia in Vegas. Two days before he said personally to me that he would be happy to achieve a top 10 finish at the Olympia. But he came in second because he was using a bunch of banned diuretics. Now he was close to Ronnie Coleman.

So Cutler had a big loud mouth and threatened to sue them if they would strip from him his second place and the prize money. But I, Nasser El Sonbaty, the nice guy, was punished for that in 1996 because I was not nasty acting or verbally aggressive.

So why do we have different measures for the same thing? And Cutler should have known better, especially five years later. Cutler’s action catapulted him – because of “his way” of cheating and his confronting them and threatening them – to the top of the bodybuilding world and rankings. No consequences but good consequences for Cutler

The consistency of the U.S. here is the inconsistency of their actions. This organization cheated me again. And I should just continue like nothing happened and think that everything is right?

[ Q ] In 2004 you resumed competing after a two-year break from bodybuilding competition. Yet you slipped back in the placements. What were your bodybuilding goals in ‘04 and ‘05? Did you achieve what you set out to accomplish over this period? And are there any more pro contests ahead for Nasser?

After being robbed and cheated so many times so obviously, so that even guys who beat me apologized for placing ahead of me, I am momentarily zero motivated to step onstage again.

For example, just to mention one show, I beat Levrone in the first and second round by two digits. But he matched me in the posing, so there was a tie. And then I lost in the end, because of the computer (scoring). This is so ridiculous. Levrone won again. Wow – what a surprise, but again at my expense.

But it is not about Levrone or this or that guy – it is about the judges. One foul apple can make them all bad. Some judges are drunk while judging, some are drug addicts, some just don’t care and some are not from here and judge accordingly (to what they are told) because they are from outside the U.S. and they do not want to get into an argument with another judge because of a competitor. Otherwise they would have had their last paid trip to the U.S. And some just do not get the green light to judge again because they judged outside of the expectation circle.

I am not saying all judges are bad and oblivious, but a certain percentage of them should not be judging and do not even have a judging, or drivers, licence. Most of the pro judges are, towards me and on a one-on-one basis, polite and friendly.

But my experience of competing so far for 17 years in the pro ranks tells me otherwise when they are sitting together and judging. You can impeach the president of the U.S. but not the (pro) bodybuilding judges. You never hear them admitting a mistake or failure.

On top of that I have been on pre-contest diets for approximately 18 years. And living a deprived life like that for so long takes a toll: a toll on your family, your friends, your lifestyle, and educational possibilities. And in some cases you really do not get too much out of it, except for being robbed. And some guys have been robbed and are having life long health problems. We do have enough bodybuilding victims in the sport.

[ Q ] So what did happen in 2004 and ‘05? Why did your place so low?

The last couple of shows I entered, actually the last three or four shows I did, I did not look my best. Way off from the typical, hard Nasser look.

Nasser El Sonbaty

In 2003 I had to go to hospital because I had a Staph infection in my right shoulder. I was at that time about two weeks out from the Night of Champions. I was hospitalized for ten days and when I came out I had lost over 60 pounds. I almost died. Anyways, I still tried to get back in; in 2004 and 2005 I ultimately came in between 14th and 15th place at three shows. Not satisfactory at all, but at that time my motivation was also not as good as in previous years, I felt regardless of how good I looked they still would not judge me correctly – as usual. I still feel today that I was the most critically judged top pro ever. I definitely would have fewer problems if I were less smart, more kiss ass and if my name was instead of “Nasser” something like “Jack Jackson” or “John Johnson”. I did not diet either as strictly as I could, should and normally would have, had I dieted properly. And another point I would like to make here is that in the 66 pro shows I entered between 1990 and 2005, over a period of 16 years, there was not one so-called judge from one of my so called original home countries like Yugoslavia or Egypt. Yes, I was born in Germany but the German judges did not view me as being “German”, and my passport was from Yugoslavia. Imagine now what kind of circus people like Shawn Ray or others like Cutler, Coleman, Levrone or Cormier, would have created if in all their pro shows would have never ever been judged by a U.S. judge. In my case it was just normal. It is not that I needed an ally in the judging panel, but why is it okay that sometimes, from 13 pro judges who judge a show, it is so normal to have at least 70 to 80 percent of the judges from the U.S.? This is so unfair that it stinks to the ultimate extent. By the way, I do know for a fact that some pro judges from Germany had later been disallowed to judge shows like the Olympia because they did judge differently than was expected. And believe it or not, in some Olympia’s I was the only non-U.S. competitor out of the top ten. I got more discriminated in the judging process then any other top competitor. This is definitely very motivational. Generally speaking, there is no good news at all regarding any changes when it comes to the issue of judging. Also I do guarantee that each show would have almost a different outcome every time if the judges were not allowed to speak to each other after the pre judging.

[ Q ] How does bodybuilding today compare to how it was in the ’90s? What are some of the main changes you have seen?

Personally I do not see any dramatic positive changes. There are still too many of the old judges in place. They still have the same attitude and a lot of them have the outcome of the show pre-decided in their head before the show even begins. The prize money is up in the Olympia and the Arnold Classic, but for the smaller shows the prize money is still the same or actually even worse if you watch the inflation rate. Also the prize money in shows like the Olympia and Arnold Classic is still too low compared to any other sports given what the bodybuilders are going through to get in ultimate, almost near-death condition. Fewer bodybuilders have contracts today. This is when it comes down to the total number of contracts and the paid sponsorship contract money. I do not see any substantial improvements in prize money when it comes to the females in the sport. Even if some judges and others find women’s bodybuilding unattractive, it is still very hard work for the women athletes as well. Fitness will die out because the girls are getting older and it takes a toll on their wrists, tendons – all the jumps – and they are still underpaid. Figure is getting bigger and bigger. Because you can train for one year and you can already be at the national level. And so many girls who do not have it like to do it because they like to expose themselves and again you do not have to train as hard as in bodybuilding and fitness. Figure is the biggest money-maker for the manufacturing suit companies, beauty article accessories companies, the NPC. So they will encourage more and more figure girls to compete. And the encouragement does not even need to be money – just a picture in the magazines or on the Internet. We will soon have at the USA’s and other national shows 500 plus figure competitors. An invasion of the colorful suit spiders.

[ Q ] If figure is, as you say, the future for female competitors, what will become of women’s bodybuilding?

I have spoken to a lot of NPC judges who have told me that they really don’t care if a girl has a well developed arm or if her calves are smaller or bigger or if they are proportioned or not. They just care for t!ts and @ss. And as long as she looks good that is what they all care about.

Nasser El Sonbaty

They are not really impressed if a competitor is in shape or with their physical or muscular achievements onstage or offstage. And a lot of them look more muscular than even the judges are so the judges, especially the male judges, don’t think it is necessarily an appealing thing. They would rather prefer one of the figure girls because they look more attractive to them physically. It’s just a physical thing. Some judges are not really going there to judge an amateur show, let’s say the USA’s or National’s, to really see how good she is for sure, but subconsciously they always check the female out, how she looks. When it comes to you or me or any male guy, if we see a girl who has a really muscular body but the face is not that good or even she may needs to shave her face, you would rather prefer a girl who is maybe less muscular and less hard but more feminine and appealing in the face and with less muscles in general. That’s what the judges are going for. It is just also a case of how many tickets they can sell. When it comes to pro bodybuilding, figure or fitness, as a regular guy what would you like to see? Most guys would say they would like to see the figure show.

[ Q ] Is women’s bodybuilding moving more and more away from the mainstream?

Definitely, I think so. We have to give all these women all the credit in the world for training so hard and getting their bodies to that ultimate physical degree. They definitely train way harder and way longer than the figure girls. But at the end I don’t think they will get more acknowledged in a verbal way or in a financial way to where they are reimbursed for their efforts.

Regardless of how much they do and how big their backs are and how hard their legs are most guys, including the judges, will still go with the softer, more feminine figure look.

Early Days

In the mid 90s

And not to put figure down but so many girls are originally strippers, not all but many. They just go from the strip club on one stage to figure competition on another stage. The only difference is the figure girls will lift a few more weights and do a little more cardio which they already do in lots of cases so the transition is not that big physically.

I’m not saying that all the figure girls are strippers but a lot of them do come from an exotic dancing background. The funny thing is they can train for a year or two and they are already on the National level and if they have good genetics they can be on the international pro level in two to three years.

And as a female bodybuilder it takes you at least ten years to make it to this level and in doing this you will damage your body with drugs way more. And with fitness, if you have good genetics and you are in your early to mid 20s that is good but what if you are ten years older?

Are you going to do your jumps, your cartwheels at the age of 35? No. You will flip straight over to figure because it is less stress on your ankles and your tendons and it is less dangerous. Sooner or later everything will go in the figure direction and the promoters can draw lots of spectators just having the figure contests.

Every figure contestant can purchase a so-called NPC card for about 50 dollars to compete for a specific year on the amateur level so there are thousands of girls out there that could do this. So it is the biggest money-maker for promoters at both the amateur and pro level.

[ Q ] Who impresses you most amongst today’s male pro bodybuilding competitors and why?

Honestly, and not to appear arrogant, I truly believe that most competitors nowadays are not as impressive as they were when I was at my peek in the ’90s. I do not see any new Levrone’s, Yates’s, Wheelers, Rays, Cormier’s, Coleman’s, Cutlers, Benaziza’s, Priest’s, Fuxe’s, Dillet’s, and Nasser’s. At that time we had a fantastic gene pool. Nowadays I do see great ones like Phil Heath and Victor Martinez – but not too many other ones.

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